>> i do not know the details, but i am sure the answer to that question is yes. when something goes wrong, there is always something you could have done better. april 2007, there was a shooting at virginia tech, the most significant crime in the history of the state, and i had just landed in japan on a trade mission, and i got on a plane and flew back, and i spent time dealing with the breeding members of that community, and i said we would put in place a panel of people that have no connection to virginia tech, and we will have them turn it upside down so we can minimize the chance that anything like that will ever happen again. we can't prevent it but question minimize that chance. things that might have happened

at ni college campus. but it required us to make significant changes to the health law, changes to campus security. there are things that went wrong. we dug into them. we found them and we fixed them to the best of our. -- our ability. >> as you take a minute, is this a broader issue with the obama's response to arab spring? >> in some regards yes. let me first take a moment and commend tim as i have before in his leadership on after -- after the tragedy on april 16th at virginia tech.

as we learned from what we wrong and improved the safety of our colleges. tim, i commend you once again for that. now, in so far as national security, there are a lot of challenges facing us. we had an opportunity beyond the side of an uprising in iran years ago when people wanted a more free society in iran. i wish the president had said we're on the side of people who wanted to change that thee ok si but they stayed challenge. when ronald reagan called the soviet union the evil empire that gave them heart. that needs to be prevented. you have worries about particularly in syria, chemical weapons stock piles. you have attacks on embassies in libya and elsewhere around

the world. this is exactly why it is so dangerous and so wrong to be playing these political games for the armed services. we need to have a strong economy and national defense. but the last thing we need to be doing is having these devastating cuts to our military readiness and that's what has to happen is stop these devastating cuts, come up with the cuts that have the right priority and make sure the men and women protecting our safety and our freedoms here have the best armments, the best equipment and making sure we get those good paying jobs and technology and defense here in virginia and not use then am a pon to raise taxes. >> no one's talking about using the military or veterans as pons, i mean, i haven't heard that stated except george kind of throw in that charge at me

and that's the kind of charge that you ought to be more careful about. i take second to no one in appreciating the service of our folks in active service and in our military i was governor in the middle o two wars. our virginia guards people, 1,500 of them deployed. i went to the deployments and the wakes in afghanistan and i celebrate the fact that all units are home. we have to get to a resolve issue and i've laid out a pretty concrete plan how we in the short plan avoid sequester cuts so that we don't harm defense ininstead of damaging the economy. we have to have some problem solvers. >> i want to give you each a moment to respond to this. that's the war in afghanistan. the issue is that our troops

are being targeted by afghan troops, the very troops that we're trying to stand up so we can stand down. governor, i'll begin with you. can we withdraw troops from afghanistan if we do not have an afghan army sufficiently stood up? do we have to stay longer if that's not accomplished? >> personally i don't think that's a good idea to let our enemies or opponents know when we were leaving. that just doesn't make sense. the men and women who have served in afghanistan and serving right now are heroic. i think we've given the afghan people in their regions in their pro-venses every opportunity to stand up and take control of their own destiny. and so there will be waves as our troops come home and i think they come home with their heads held high. i think human intelligence will still be important. there are ways where we can

monitor that area precisely strike if there is any terrorist idea not just there but in the border area where pakistan. what's going on right now is just a reminder that the afghan people need to take control of their own destiny. americans that have informsed our treasure and even more our blood and injuries of so many folk choss have served there and until afghanistan -- if the afghan people don't stand up for themselves, we can't -- >> governor kaine one minute in response to my question. >> i'll start agreeing with that last point. >> the u.s. can't be the guarantor of civil society in afghanistan. it has to be afghanees. and i think the mission was completed with the death of bin laden and the essential elimination of the top leadership in al-qaeda. that's why we went in afghanistan. we didn't go into afghanistan to remake civil society. we went into afghanistan to get bin laden and al-qaeda.

i am glad we have completed that mission. we are now withdrawing troops from afghanistan. the challenges i think we have going forward is a very porous nature of afghanistan an pakistan and the nuclear arsenal and the instability in that region putting that arsenal at risk. that has to be our primary focus as we move to the draw down to make sure that we do all we can to keep the arsenal from getting into the hands of other folks who will do other nations harm. >> we've reached a point for your closing statements. governor kaine we'll begin with you. >> thanks to david and the panel is an for the fairfax chamber. i want to thank george. we've been competitors now for 18 months, both working pretty hard, our families working pretty hard and our teams working pretty hard. i won't say i take him as role models because we disagree on a lot of things, i do remember when i started to get into

politics that i viewed him as a role model in the vigor with which he campaigned and the fact that he enjoys campaigning. a lot of people make it look look it's root canal surgery. you enjoy it and so do i. last year in the aftermath in the debt debacle, it was telling when you looked at the reason that s. & p don graded america's credit. they -- down graded america's credit. they down graded it because too many in the american leadership class were willing to use a debt ceiling vote that was a routine vote as leverage over the economy. too many people were playing chicken on capitol hill rather look looking at the 300 million people depending on them try to do the right thing. we've got to fix washington so that it's about results. we talked about strategies.

y got a plan that i would encourage you to check out on the website about infrastructure and investment, leveling the playing feel that we did. we have to find come mon ground and fix the -- common ground and fix the budget. there's too much division in congress. that's why s & p and moodies say we have to put some people in there throg compromise. the issue is this issue of sequester. let the bush tax cuts expire as planned over 500,000. take away unnecessary subsidies. then you get a $100 billion annual cut down to $23 billion in savings that i know we can find. it's time for specifics. it's timing for action. it's time for working -- it's time for action. it's time for working together. >> thank you for this opportunity to have this debate today. tim you kept talk about that plan. we still don't know how many jobs would be affected. you want to raise taxes on

exxonmobil and others. i want to know what the impact is on jobs. folks, there's a clear choice and which approach will be best for jobs here in our country. i envision a better future that what we're enduring today. david asked me who are your targets in your campaign. you're asking me various percentages of i figure about 99% of the folks should be on our side. anybody who uses electricity, anybody who dreist a car, anybody who -- drives a car, anybody who pays taxes or works if a living or wants a job or anybody who cares about their family's future ought to be on our side and i figure that's about 99% of the people. why? because the cap and trade that chris as supported would skyrocket our communities. people are paying $30 more every time you fill up compared to 2009 if you like higher gas

prices that's his side. i want us to allow in virginia to produce oil and natural gas off our coast and use those royalties for roads and transportation. that would be the first bill i would introduce as your senator. if people want a job, our approach is create more job opportunities for people and whether it's young people or middle age folks, 20% of the folks in our country are underemployed or unemployment. we need to turn it around. i ask you for your support. talk to your friends, neighbors, let them know if they want a job, pay taxes or care about the future of their family they ought to join the allen team. go to our website. i look forward to making sure that america is ascending once again and is a land of opportunity for all to catch their dreams. >> thanks to both of you. that's going to conclude our debate today. i want to thank nbc for hosting

this debate. thank you to the panel. stay with nbc news for continuing coverage of decision 2012 and don't forget to vote on november 6th. thank you. [applause]

>> two more senat debates coming up on c-span. on thursday the nevada senate debate between dane her and her democratic challenger that's at 11:00 p.m. eastern live on c-span and also online at c-span.org. and on friday from wisconsin, republican tommy thompson debates democrat tommy baldwin. that's live on c-span and c-span.org at 9:00 p.m. eastern. mr. thompson served as wick's governor from 1997 to 2001. and she has represented the second district in congress since 1999. >> the first debate between presidential candidates mitt romney and president barack obama is next wednesday october 3rd. jim leher moderates from the

university of denver. starting at 7:00 followed by the domestic policy debate and your reaction, follow our live coverage on c-span, c-span radio and online at c-span.org. >> fordham university hosted a discussion on the jewish vote over the weekend. among the speakers, former new york city mayor ed koch who supports president obama. this is an hour and 40 minutes. >> we're here again from the wineman institute in connection to this conference dedicated to the 2012 presidential election and the way it's being shaped by the memory of the holocaust

and the politics of israel. we can find no two more interesting people to discuss this topic for many, many reasons. first a former three-term mayor of new york city ed koch. [applause] people forget -- i do not, but people forget that mayor koch actually started as a congressman. so the discussion that we're talking about is not merely about his days as mayor but also he too has run for congress and know what is that means to be in washington. i think in his more recent term, you can thing mayor koch in guiding the king maker in guiding the jewish vote. he may not agree to this but actually many people think to him as a barometer a king maker of sorts of where the jewish vote is headed.

that's another reason to have him. he may disown the king-maker title but to some degree our next guest congressman bob turner might say that the support that mayor koch had given to you was in fact helpful. >> it was beyond helpful. it was critical. >> all right. so let's go back, a king-maker when it comes to guidance. >> i accept critical. bob turner is in fact, a brooklyn congressman in his first term, a very decent and likable man and very much involved in his first term. he's on the foreign relations committee, he's on the homeland committee. you obviously got your hands diry in the most difficult issue that faced the united states. we're happy to have you here. it's important to remember that, yes, let's have a quick applause for bob turner. [applause] >> you know why?

he may one day become a king-maker himself. >> what we have to point out in acknowledging bob turner's election is that it requires for mayor koch to cross party lines. if you did not know, bob turner's a republican in what would be otherwise a democratic district of brooklyn. mayor koch is not the first time -- you're right. i'm so sorry about that. manhattan rosenbam. this is not the first time he crossed party lines. of course. remember he voted for george bush in the second election in 2004. he actually famously said i don't agree with a single thing that -- >> single domestic issue -- >> with the exception of the fact that i think he's handling

terrorism in a superior way. and that to you was the most important issue. >> it finessed all other issues. >> in the case of the movement for bob turner, you and i did an event shortly there after in which you explained your support for bob turner. and you said, look, i want to send a message to president obama that i didn't think he was sufficiently handling his foreign policy correctly with respect to israel. >> respectful to the jewish community. >> right. and with respect specifically to his support to israel. but ten you said i met with president obama and he very much solicited my support -- >> you're briefing it too quickly. >> but i wanted to step in here because it was apparently last week that you delivered a speech at a synagogue for rosh hashanah. and today in michael goodwin's

column i continued the discussion -- and this was a discussion in which you were yet critical of the obama administration -- >> i've never had a perfect candidate. i wasn't perfect. and i will always speak out. but if you read the article today and my other utterances, it has always been stated that i'm still on the obama train. and i will explain why if you would -- >> we will definitely like you to do that. but first with the question of the red wine that -- >> not so much the red wine. >> yeah, please -- tell us what you said last week. >> ok. i was incensed as i believe every american was at what occurred in both egypt and libya.

and egypt, the embassy was overreturn, the cops, the egyptian cops ran away, didn't protect the embassy in libya. the military -- libyan military, libyan cops ran away, didn't protect the embassy and in addition, worst of all was the fact that the ambassador was murdered, killed so to speak. i'm not sure exactly how he was affix yated or how it actually occurred along with three other consulate personnel. and i did not believe that the american response was adequate. the egyptian -- strike that, the american embassy in egypt initially put out a statement which was denuciatory of the

video that some muslims were saying was the reason for the attacks and was not sufficiently denuciatory of the egyptian government in my judgment. then hillary put out a magnificent statement which was followed by the white house repudiating the american embassy statement and making a statement calling the egyptian government to task. and libya we were more conciliatory because the libyan president had to denounce the attack. but that's notted ." i mean, if the libyan government can't control its cops and its military and provide protection for foreign embassies, it's not a government. and we should be denunciatory.

and we should punish. i doubt that there is a single country in the world in western civilization that wouldn't have immediately called back its ambassador and egypt still possible and certainly cut off or put in terms as it related to the two billion that egypt receives from the united states and i'm sure libya receives money -- i don't know how much, but i'm sure it does. and the amount was greater because the imbass door from libya had help arab spring. i've never been supportive of the arab spring. i know the columnists and the "times" and elsewhere extol it. we're friends with people who i'm sure will turn time-out be

hostile to us. it doesn't make any sense. why should anybody trust us in the future? i'm not talking about mubarak how we threw him under the bus. those were the background facts that caused me to react strongly. >> congressman, you are very much the beneficiary of a shift in jewish vote in your district of queens and brooklyn. do you think the events, the attacks will result in yet a further ongoing shift of jewish americans changing -- >> i do. and i think there's a little more to follow. the shift in the special election indicated the distrust of this administration. and it was clear we heard what

he said. we heard what the administration say and people didn't believe it. and the message was sent loud and clear. and for a while i think they got themselves together. in these recent attacks there will be more to follow. we've heard the state department say we've taken every reasonable step to safeguard our staff. we've heard the quote from the arab spring ambassador suggesting that he was comfortable and these people love me. yet, today we find out that's not true. he issued a statement saying he was very concerned with his own safety and welfare. so again we have a big information gap, credibility gap with this administration and that's coming home to roost. and this is going to build. >> may i say -- >> yeah, sure. >> today's "new york times"

portraying the interview with the new egyptian president adds to all of this because what the egyptian president said in effect as i read it was if the united states wants to have good relations with the arab world and with egypt in effect it has to jetson its special relationship with -- jetty son its relationship with israel. when the united states took on the role of mediator between israel and egypt, it was understood that there is not only a special relationship, there is an alliance. israel is an alley of the united states and -- ally of the united states. and when the united states entered that position, the palestinians knowing that said we still want the united states because we know that no other country could get israel to

ultimately allow a second state -- palestinian state next to israel because it needs the security that the united states would provide in the event it didn't turn out well as many people think it wouldn't because if you just look at the palestinian -- the situation today, i personally am for a two-state solution. do i believe it's going happen in my lifetime? no. do the israelis want it? yes. do the palestinians want it? i don't believe it. because if they did they would be at the table negotiating but they haven't been for more than a year. and the reason i believe that is the case is that they think that ultimately they can wait out the western world and ultimately have a single state in which they will overwhelm

the israelis. that's why if you ask the palestinian authority mouhammad -- >> it's abuzan. >> he has an honorific name which was what i was looking for. israel as a jewish state. he says don't ask me. i don't have to do that. but that's the heart of this. that's the very heart of it. if you're going have two states, one is muslim, one is jewish. now, that doesn't mean that christians can't live in the muslim state. they do now meaning on the west bank. although they have fled because of their muslim neighbors.

now less than 2% of the arabs living on the west bank are christian. at one time bethlehem had a christian majority. they have fled. many of them have come to the united states and the position of the fattah which is the majority government on the west bank not in gaza is that the people who left the sector now called israel should have a rite of return. it will not happen. so once again while i believe and he believes in the two-state solution. i do not think that the arab leadership believes in it. and certainly on the gaza

strip. hamas has a covenant that says that every jew that enters the palestinian mandate after 1917 must be expelled. and they have also declined to give up violence or accept any prior agreement. so for the arabs in my judgment it's a facade. it's a fake. >> congressman, given what you just heard the mayor said, i suspect that you to some degree believe it, agree with him. do you think that president obama in listening to what mayor koch said has misread the politics of the mideast, that we remember his speech in cairo? >> i do. >> in which he never went to jerusalem after that or went to

israel in which there was very much an apologetic, conciliatory over chur and there were these messages to iran where the president was welcoming the new year for the iranian people and in the end it doesn't appear as if the united states has enhanced its'e united states has enhanced their credibility after these conciliatory gestures. you heard the mayor speak so grimly of what he thinks the future will hold. >> we have not only a misreading -- to four years ago, this administration set out to reset doing a good deal of personal diplomacy, all of you can win over hearts and minds of

increasingly radicalized islamic worlds. the results of this in a short time, we see a reluctance to understand what is really happnening to get -- happening to get back on policy. not only are we too often on the we fail to recognize the momentum and the danger it's causing. we haven't gotten into the iranian thing. i think this administration has

dropped the ball. and they are capable of changing their mind to put this right. >> will the mindset and tactics in handling the middle east, does it change the nature of the electorate in terms of how they will vote? historically, it was always said that they never vote their economic interests. they became professionals, and even still promoted the democratic party even if they could have been republicans economically. this democratic party has nothing to worry about because they won't move off of that no might achieve. it is very much with israel in

mind. is that still true? >> i am not sure, i think people on this issue of israel and the voting pattern of jews -- that is my recollection. young jews, we have forgotten when the holocaust came, the children that were at the 500,000 children killed during the holocaust. historically, jews have an enormous social conscience which is reflected in the biblical package -- addage. why do they repeat the word

justice twice? justice not only for jews, but for all the people. i believe that. >> you believe they have internalized that? >> absolutely. i believe that when jews vote democratic as they do overwhelmingly and as i do overwhelmingly, it is because of social conscience. are important. among them are social security, medicare, medicaid, abortion, food stamps, taxing progressively the wealthy. and foreign affairs, those are

the partnerships, so to speak. and on the issue of domestic matters, i don't know how you can be against the platform of the democratic party on those issues. bill poolesomething that bob and i read to, we will get into that partso when i announced what i was going to take on the issue of sending a message here, there are only two special elections and the whole country. my political friends said, you are crazy. i announce that i would do what i could to make this a

referendum, sending a message to the president. they relate to a number of issues in the jewish community. >> q frame bidder earlier as respecting the jewish community. -- you framed it earlier as respecting the jewish community. >> in any event, i said i was going to lead that challenge. i got a call from the democratic candidate who i knew at the time. i had worked with them and we had a good relationship.

he was screaming at me on the telephone, which i can understand. i said, david, this is not personal. not that it is going to help. he said, i can be the message. i said, you can be the message that we send another jewish but democrat to washington? that is not the message. the messages that we send a republican. rob turner said, let's talk about this and see if we can come to an agreement. i said, please come up. he was highly intelligent. i said, look. i can only do this with you on the following basis. i am sending a message to the

president of my party and you have to be sending a message to party that we don't agree on privatizing medicare and social security, turning medicaid into a block grant. i don't care about your otherhe said we agree on that. we don't have to agree on every aspect of that, but i wanted that made clear. we agree that that was the key. he kept his word, i kept my word. he won with an eight point margin. >> roughly. >> unheard of. 300,000 jews live in that area. the congressional district did

not go democratic. i got a call a couple weeks later from the chief of staff, a but wonderful guy. the brother of the former mayor of chicago. the grandson. he said, i know you're meeting with the delegates at the second street library. i said, sure, who wouldn't? he said, half an hour early. i came half an hour early. butthe president came man, i want to give you all the details, but but he said to me, i don't understand why you are upset. i am really supportive.

he is an affable, charming guy. i like him. i like him then, i like him now. we spoke for 20 minutes and he said, your turn. i had 10 minutes. i would not have been so critical of you if you have said that we can go back to the '67 indefensible and i don't agree with you. have you also make demands upon hamas, you didn't. israel doesn't have to deal with them until they give up their charter.

did he die? i said, no, mr. president, he but did not. he convinced me and i was molded over in the next couple of days. i will not stretch this out and keep them wondering. i do not believe in that. do it now. i called up the people infovled. -- involved. i agreed, they said we could go to florida. i will go anywhere you want me to go. anymore because of my physical

condition. rowboat calls, videos, what ever. -- robo calls, , videos. indeed, hospitalization. [indiscernible] so that is where we are. >> congressman, within the last year or so, i did an event, very similar. also a heavily jewish audience. it was packed. i did not know there were this many jewish republicans. and in this discussion, one of the things they said is, very surprising to me that more jewish-american don't support republican candidates. precisely because of the number

jewish community. he was genuinely baffled and said, i don't see how anyone can think that the democratic party israel. election, there might be more movement than you would have otherwise expected? >> this is a tough one to figure out. eric cantor called me a week after the election and said this is the first time a republican has won the jewish vote. maybe something is happening. i got some interesting advice. i hadn't been in politics very long. if you have two jews, you have [laughter]

so that, i found, was truism. as we look at the changing patterns, the wisest person i know in politics said that the jewish vote is such that the conservative, you can get an appeal to. social agenda. the secular jewish vote, very legitimate socialism. what may get them back in the tent is israel. 20% would be enough to win the election. the district is 33% jewish, perhaps more.

the jewish vote, which historically had been a block is not. >> could that be mirrored in other districts? i think i had mentioned to you that we did another event. shortly after your election, he said that was a freak accident and had nothing to do with the obama administration's treatment of israel. it had everything to do with the but increasing conservatives -- that. the jews that vote in your district are naturally more religious and conservative. it is a common thread.

>> this is the part of the entire american electorate. whether it is virginia or but whatever. i think as the election becomes more focused, the divide will be more pronounced. >> it is a little confusing thinking about the 2012 race, israel is in your sight lines. on one hand you have clearly at icy relationship between the but prime minister of israel and the president of the united states. it is not a good feeling. the defense minister says that when it comes to military spending, the iron dome defense but the system, remember this is

not the ransacked an embassy. they ransacked the israeli embassy eight months ago. this is the second time in one year that in egypt embassy is fair game. the prime minister called obama immediately and obama got on of but holland -- the phone and said, do something about this. protect these people. she will routinely say that this is the best president in support for israel. in terms of military spending, we have never got more support. but if you ask people on the street, they have a very different reading of the feelings of obama to israel. >> i had taken the position up but until recently that israel

robert should not be an issue in the race because the parties are both supportive of israel. it should relate to the domestic issues where there is clear cleavage between the two. i don't think that anyone can rightly say that president obama is the best president. i think reagan was. i think second bush was. but he's acceptable in my judgment. i hope to change him.

i talk to people, they know my views. i am not reluctant. i tell them exactly what i think. and have never believed in the conversations because they always appeared interesting. maybe i am just somebody else, but they will appear. i am not bad at this stuff. i have made very clear where i am. there is further support of israel, there was a magnificent speech at the un in support ofhe kept the palestinian authority from getting independent states opposed by the un.

he has done wonderful things and i give him the credit for it. it gave him his political start. i understand that in chicago. ... about is doable. all this could be wiped out in terms of bitterness and so forth if the president would just say, an attack by iraq on israel will be received by the united states as an attack upon the united states. i think you can say that about saudi arabia, too. when i made my statement, you should make people turn to vote. iran wants to destroy saudi arabia, too.

which is an ally of ours. >> we will get to iran in a moment, but let's pick up a little of that. it is confusing if you watch both conventions and you listen to people for both parties. butone will always claimed that but they are superior to the other in their historic support of israel. you have people telling us that republicans are stronger. i forgot these efforts to thwart statehood. that is something obama has not received enough credit for. within a year, we have both a jewish congresspersons, one

saying opposite things. your party would do better in the white house for israel. >> i certainly believe so. it is a very critical period. small things can mean an awful lot when the president has not minister, has made outrageous claims. these have consequences. heri think some of the arab states right now -- these are big blunders. >> you mean the boldest of the arab states? >> that daylight between israel and the united states. this is an administration of a

great deal of rhetoric. let's look to the actions. >> that is an interesting point, congressman. there are people that say, it doesn't matter if there are nice photo ops. but does it matter what president obama is eating in jerusalem? >> it does matter. >> would you measure military support with the diplomatic aid? he may not love is real. >> i am not asking obama if he in the best interests of the united states to support that relationship that every president has done.

does he believe in order to satisfy the muslim world, that somehow or another, he has toit is absolutely true. but buti believe they are honorable people. not having that meeting is unfair. my contact said that the israeli the first sent the request had to walk that

statement back. i accept it as true because people that told me this are honorable people. i agree with bob that the most ... keep attacking the united states, we will somehow throw israel under the bus in order to them. every time we do something that this lodge's the space between them. it is in our interest to make sure that iran -- >> we can, but -- >> iran is an enemy of both the united states and israel.

but butcan you count on afghanistan when the chips are down? they are killing us. we should be out of afghanistan tonight. but we are there with our young men are dying. i read in the times that the reason we don't fix the capital is that we don't have any money, and we jus tspent money -- just spent money completing the american embassy in iraq. >> congressman, you were seated when netanyahu added congress a

number of months ago. -- visited congress months ago. day is that there were three prime minister. many people thought it was incredibly presumptuous. addressing the house of congress. and that he presented this later ovations were paid for. >> an outrage. tom freedman said that for palestinians to engage in the same and throw stones at israeli soldiers was in the times.

buti want to tell you. i was in israel in 1990, 1991 when they said people are not coming -- could you come, maybe that would encourage americans to resume tourism? i met with teddy who is a great at that point. >> he said, to show you the archaeological museum that we just found. he did not tell me there was a dental strike.

we're going to the old city and he had no security. i had five cops. but protected him and there were 25 reporters. they were hit on the head, bleeding, and ultimately went to the hospital. i had stitches in my head, so i am telling you that i would be blind. tom freedman who has never apologized for it urged palestinians to throw stones at israeli soldiers. they shot people threatening them with life and limb. assailing those israeli soldiers for not being kinder. >> you no doubt remember that

day. is the support of israel genuine in the house of representatives? is there a strategic interest in the united states to maintain those strong relationships? >> the relationship goes from strategy to culture to a commonality of interests. it is both sides of the aisle. >> one of your early days in congress, it was reported as a special moment to see that many standing ovations. you would have stood. >> absolutely. >> during the campaign, i would but all have been jumping up and

down. >> why do you think that the jewish electorate has changed at all in recent times during the obama administration? do you think that the support among non-jews has changed in any way for their support of israel?

with respect to the american at. people, it's very interesting. democrats, at one point, not too long ago, only 48% of democrats were supportive of israel. 85% of republicans were supportive. >> it has gone up, democrats. of.>> you are saying that support among republicans is higher? >> it has always been higher. we are talking among the -- >> among the general population. the percentage is higher among republicans. that is a nice lead in for you. >> i see a lot of forces at play right now. the leadership of the democratic party is taking a harder tone. a pro-palestinian platform, among other things. there is a moderate democratic vote and there are liberals and who need a place to go. you know, the republicans right

now are not as low coming to a large group -- welcoming to a large group. also within the republican party, we have the party on the far right with problems. dealing with -- >> you don't go bowling with them. why do you suppose the mayor -- a higher percentage of republicans than democrats among non-jews?

why do you suppose that is true? >> we see a commonality of interests of culture and strategy. we, republicans, have an ability to look at reality. this islamic revolution is serious business. >> they want to kill us, too often, in the house. or in committees. democrats >> talk about you have the presbyterians, the baptists, we have different forces at work. we need to be able to win this and listen to what they are saying.

the secretary of state, what we hear on arab radio and television and newspapers, we go into our policy. we are dealing with other places in the world. >> interesting to me, again, the times' reporting the interview, they said you have to accept our societal rules. i have no objection to upset -- accepting egyptian societal role so long as they apply to egyptians.

when they impose them on other people, for example, blasphemy, we don't recognize blasphemy as a criminal offense. at all. the united states freedom of speech says there is no criminal charges of blasphemy. in arab coutnries, they - country- is, they kill people. -- in arab countries, they kill people. she found something that were burned. they are responsible. in other countries, i think it was pakistan, a couple was charged with adultery. they have a rule that may not make characters o fmohamm -- of mohammed.

the danish cartoonists are protected by danish police. the danish governement suffered enormously, in terms of trade, the new york times didn't even print those cartoons out of fear, undoubtedly. it is certainly worthy of public notice and would endanger their reporters. in france, they said, we respect the muslim religion for them, but it is not for us. and they expect us to end our first amendment --

>> we, americans, can not accept that they have their culture and we have ours. we stand for freedom, rights, i don't think that you should back off of those for one moment. we support israel that has their values as well as ours. there is a very different set of police. it is just imposed upon them by political and religious leadership. >> iran. before we get to that, i want to talk about the 1980 presidential election because you were involved with that one as well. and there might be a parallel

here that we can discuss. historically, an american presidential elections, 50% of jews to vote for the democratic party. and president carter, the each got 40%. he was even with reagan. congressman anderson got 20%. those numbers were just historic. it may or may not have influenced the race, but it had a post camp david ethos. yet another un resolution where they passed a resolution saying that jerusalem was occupied.

and the occupation of jerusalem, that issue was not strongly preventing that. >> he directed the un delegates to vote for it. i was coming back from china and i was on the plane. the captain of the plan says that the president would like you to call him before, when you land. when we land, i call this number and the president took the call. first, chit chat. then he says, have you heard about my problem? i say, yeah. he said, i need your help. he said to me, i did not know

what was then that resolution. he lied. how do i know? because our delegate publicly said that he read the resolution to jimmy carter. jimmy carter instructed him to vote for it. >> there have been at least one abberant presidential a election in which jews voted in a divergent way. do either of you think that we might see that kind of dip for 2012, or does president obama maintain the numbers on jewish voters? >> new york is a very important state. it is tough to say what will happen.

i think that the president loses florida. and loses the jewish support at the level he needs. >> is this a possible revisit and of 1980? -- revisiting of 1980? >> i think the president got the highest number of jews, the second-highest being 95% of all blacks. it's not hard to understand why. people, not only jews, we were so excited that we would have an african american candidate president in the white house. i think that that pride or sense of feeling isn't something that you can say based on our history and how it wipes out.

we now have come to the point where a black man or a black woman, or any other group could achieve that. i think he will not get 78%, but i think that the president is going to win and be reelected. it is part of that as opposed to having the time to stop him. >> we will take questions from the audience and another break. it is largely dedicated to the memory with respect to the moral failure of nations that fail to act as well as righteousness.

i thought that one of the lessons of the holocaust, that is what they tell everyone in grade school, when a madman says that he is deciding to kill a certain group of people, you take him seriously. you are supposed to listen to people at their word. do we listen and internalize everything? the president ahmadinejad said numerous times that his intention is to wipe israel off the map. i don't think hitler said that. he never actually said the final

solution of the jewish question. >> there is a war to hold the jews responsible. and there will be an elimination. >> what he said was if there is war, you hold the jews responsible. i remember that speech. >> ok. so i think the prime minister at one point equated hitler with him. some people in israel were critical of that. >> why? >> he is not that he is not quite that. >> i do not know how you distinguish between killing all jews and killing all jews within your authority. >> if we have learned 70 years later the lessons of the holocaust, why isn't the united states and the world taking the president more seriously? >> i was shocked when the former editor of the "new york

times" said, why should we not have the bombs? -- said, "why shouldn't iran have nuclear bombs?" president obama said we do not accept that they should ever get the bombs and that we will contain them. not at all. we will not let him get the bombs. to have the former editor-in- chief of the "new york times" to propose that, i said, this is substituting israel for czechoslovakia. this is the bomb. but then destroyed.

-- give them the bomb. let them destroyed. this is containment. to me, that was extraordinary. i do not happen to believe that israel is going to do it on its own because there is such dissension in israel as to whether or not it is possible to do it on your own. there was a tip of the hat related to that when the prime minister said, it will take six months before they get their bomb. that is after the election here. i believe there will be an israeli intervention on their own. i do believe the president should say an attack upon israel and an attack on saudi arabia by iran will be perceived as an attack on the united states and we will respond militarily.

why they have now said that -- said thathey haven't -- a senator in january of this year made the statement that that is exactly what we should do. he is the chairman of the senate defense appropriations committee. he knows where he is speaking as it relates to the military ability of the united states. >> there are some who say the united states should take more of an aggressive approach. to absolutely take steps to

disarm a nuclear iran. >> we are in the prevention policy, not containment. are around last november, the open intelligence briefings suggested that by september, october, iran would have enough material to make two implosive type devices. weapons-grade. they were working on that. the sanctions was going to try to slow this down. we know the number of subdivisions they are making and creating. they have accelerated their program, not decrease it. the sanctions are working very

well for what they are supposed to do. their end goal is to see we stop them from doing what they are doing. they are not. >> what about waiting them out? the idea the sanctions will eventually work? >> we are dealing with a time line. if the time line was this time of year and now the conversation has shifted to a more sophisticated weapon than simply an implosive device and maybe we are six months away from that, the device i mentioned could be put in a container ship and sent to a harbor and to a great deal of damage.

we do not want them to get to the point where they can do that. recently, a prime minister suggested he wants to see the president. the president blew that off. why? he did not want to hear what the prime minister was going to tell him. what do you think he wants to tell him? here is the timeline, mr. president. by this date, they want to have it. we have to do something now. we have to get inspectors to see they don't. we have to take that material out. the president did not want to have that meeting. he did not want to hear it. >> what is the mood on the foreign relations committee and

the homeland committee backs we do not have hearings on the subject. what do the members of the committee think? these are people for whom security is paramount. you would think they have given us more thought. >> the topic is shifting more to the strategic and tactical. there is a profound pessimism, even without our allies, that this will be resolved in a diplomatic way. >> they are pessimistic about that. everyone thinks we are sliding into some conflict that will take place. >> it is coming soon. there is talk on the consequences. we cannot simply attack and go about our business. this will set off a whole chain of unpleasant, long-term -- >> a 15-minute amateur video no one would have ever seen could set off ransacking embassies all across. >> the people who organize this can stockpile insult to islam. there are enough publications, cartoons, video, internet access, that they can pull out and say here is the latest

insult. i do not buy that for a minute. that this was some spontaneous demonstration. [applause] >> but it is -- >> in support of bob's point, why did it happen on the anniversary of 9/11? that is fooling no one except our state department. >> it is frightening implications. this is merely a sneak preview of far more radical -- >> they want to kill us. through history, there has been an effort by the islamists to resurrect -- that would run from spain all the way to indonesia.

including 4 billion muslims who would be -- they would be under the rule of a religious leader and having a theocracy instead of the secular states that exist. >> this will be a massive iran. >> let's take questions from the audience. i am shocked by the hands. i did not think anybody would have anything to say. right here. very important. no speeches, only questions. also, speak into the microphone. c-span is here. you should have your questions recorded. now she does not want to do it. all of the sudden, she is shy. >> ok. basically it is a question for response. i am not sure what i was going to say to.

you have basically right raised. the fundamental question is whether this administration really has a middle eastern policy. my feeling is that, a good deal of the time, the administration just ducks. you mentioned starting out the olive branch to egypt. moving on to during the iranian efforts against the administration. >> the question? >> giving things -- >> the question? >> i will get to the question. you basically had no policy, it

seems to me. it is endless reactive nest. -- reactiveness. >> i will. essentially the question is that this woman is saying she does not think the obama administration actually has a foreign policy. certainly consistent when it comes to dealing with the middle east. >> i think they are consistent in their inconsistencies and lack of policy. we have been getting political slogans and not policy solutions. >> if you need to leave for whatever reason, can you please go out the back. it is rude to our guests. go ahead. >> what is the plan to salvage social security and medicare which we know is unsustainable?

what is the plan? we have had enough of hope and change and now we are getting forward. we need something more. >> i think the answer is the domestic policy and inconsistencies have also emerged. we have a question. wait for the microphone. >> my question is should the jewish population, the voting population, be satisfied with the fact that christian evangelicals are in our corner when it comes to israel? i heard on tv saying that jerusalem should be the capital of israel. i said, this guy is really great. but then, he said, with the resurrection of our lord and savior, he will be the ruler of

jerusalem. i nearly hollered. >> you heard this. this woman said there is a mixed bag with the evangelical support. >> let me tell you how to handle it. i think the evangelicals are terrific in their support of israel and should be encouraged. the fear that is often expressed by jews, the evangelicals believe that before christ can come again, the jews have to accept him or they will die. that is the general exposition. my response to that is this. if there is a report that the

messiah is here, seek him out. asked him if he is jewish. he must be jewish biblically. of the line of david. if he says he is, then say, is this your first or second visit? [laughter] if he says is his first visit, then the evangelicals will convert to judaism. if he says it is his second, then we should convert. [laughter] [applause] >> you always some it up quickly. -- sum it up perfectly.

>> you have evangelicals not necessarily in your district. an evangelical support financially that came from another part of the country. >> it turns out, we get no support financially either, even from the republican party. sadly, it is more pronounced in the islamic world, the end of days. a lot of people think this is coming soon. they can help it along. this is very bad reasoning. what is coming out of iran is far more frightening than anything out of alabama. >> let's go back up there and come back down. we will not miss you, ma'am. there you go. good choice.

nice shirt. >> i heard you when he supported bush, you said, i do not agree with him with his foreign policy. >> no, i do not agree with him on a single domestic issue. he thinks terrorism is a form of criminality. >> you did it as far as israel was concerned, you felt you supported israel. >> you are not quoting me correctly, although i happen to believe he was very supportive of israel. the quote is the one i gave you. >> when obama ran, you said you were supporting obama because of his stance on israel. >> that is not what i said at

all. >> what is the question? >> you said that was one of the biggest mistakes you ever made now. >> oh, please. what is your question? >> are you now supporting obama? >> yes. i said that at the beginning. >> why are you supporting him? >> i think i already gave my reason. i will briefly. i believe there are a whole aspect of the issues to be considered. on domestic issues, and i will not go through it again, you cannot compare the democrats to the republicans. the democrats are so far better on medicare, medicare, social security, abortion, taxing, etc. with respect to his position on israel, i hope to move his mind.

-- with respect to his position to move him ohope to mine. >> we will come back. i feel like i was not clear the first time. questions. not speeches. questions. just get to the questions. >> you mentioned the fact that it was said the united states is assisting israel with all their military cooperation, that president obama is good for the state of israel. is it possible there has been some pressure that was applied to the israeli government? is it also possible israel is being placed in a particular position where they have to say some positive statements for the obama administration because they have to head for the -- because they have to

hedge the possibility he may be reelected? >> the question is when it was said the united states under the obama administration, at least with respect to military expenditures and cooperation -- intelligence, right. intelligence information has been terrific. this gentleman speculates there has been pressure in israel for there to be a positive statement. >> i happen to believe he is an honorable man and he would not say that if he did not believe it. i believe he believed it because it is true. >> congressman? >> i think the level of military support at about 3 billion is failing for quite a number of -- is fairly con

sistent for quite a number of years now. the intelligence services have indeed worked very well together. when that statement was issued, that was probably before the joint israeli-american exercise was canceled in the gulf. it was a shocking surprise for the israelis. so i would take what was said there and factor that into it. >> how about this gentleman in the middle? the first two were late. [laughter] >> you can tell this is a jewish crowd. >> all right, you will be next. >> you can tell this is a jewish crowd. >> what are my cautionary words again? >> my question is i would like to hear a response to the statement this morning by hank,

what you think of that. given the location of the jewish vote and the numbers, he did not think it would be at all significant in this presidential election. because of the location. and the likely vote. >> i never heard his name announced before. one of the leading pollsters recently indicated he did not see the jewish vote would make much of a difference in this election. >> it is a matter of opinion. >> the largest concentrations of the jewish vote in california and new york, they may be decided. >> is there any question new york is going? >> i am not ready to write it off yet. >> that is the first time i heard you say something that -- [laughter] >> we will prove we are gender-

neutral. you have to have a really good question. >> can i say something? she intimidated you. >> she's scared the hell out of me. >> one of our topics is the holocaust. before we get into too much about votes and policy in the u.s., can you on that when you mentioned munich? there was ample evidence in europe and america of hitler's intentions before the first concentration camp was built. what is it that american jews do not understand about the rampant propaganda over the middle east? muslim schools, among the clerics, among their governments, that they want to

get rid of the jews as they did before from their territories, from what they consider their [indiscernible]? if we have no answer, what can we do about it? >> you touched on this early on. you said younger jewish- americans, they do not get the concept. this woman is saying, what is it about what we are hearing, the noise and chatter in the arab-muslim world, specifically among younger jewish americans or younger americans, period, that they have an unfamiliarity of the history? class i think that is true. young jews today do not know the history of the holocaust and it is really quite incredible.

you should understand. the goal of islam's has historically been the destruction of western civilization and the forced conversions of populations all over the world to islam. the sole exceptions would be christianity, christians and jews, if they accepted the supremacy of islam over their own religions. this is a fight that has gone on for hundreds if not thousands of years and will not be over for many years to come. my fear is we lead the good life. they envy us, hit us, why? we have an extraordinary civilization.

we want to live. we do not want to die. they believe if they die killing an infidel, they are lifted to heaven and have the services of 72 virgins. i did not make that up. when you look at some of the -- not the koran itself but other holy books in islam -- some and was upset because he was criticized for using it. mohammed said look behind that tree. there is a jew behind that tree. kill the jew. i am paraphrasing. kill the jew is his language, not mine. nobody cared. you do not taken seriously. why not? they did not take adolf hitler

seriously. they thought it was a moment in time past. it did not. >> i had a promise. [laughter] >> i just want to say this is 36 people who asked me this question. i asked you this question. my husband and i, we spend this summer in israel because we were lucky enough to have a 19- year-old grandchild. the question they gave me, and they all give it to me, was, given obama's record, how could you put him into office a second year where he can then do anything? [applause] i have to say this.

>> that was a good question. >> it is a factor as it relates to the vast majority of jews in making their decision. with jews, when the election is over, and president obama can no longer run again, and will his support of israel be kept as a commitment or will he burned the jews? -- or will he spurn the jews. that is the heart of it. there is only one answer for people like me. i believe he is an honorable man. if i believe -- you may not. i believe he is an honorable man. if he makes the commitment, i believe he will keep it.

it is as simple as that. >> let's take one more question. a much younger person. let's try your spirited will be the last question and then we will say goodbye. >> thank you. approximately an hour ago, the associated press release a story that a senior-ranking general in the iranian national guard stated that, in any situation, if israel would attack iran, they will see that as an attack coming from the united states report. they will be open to retaliation by the iranian government. do you believe the obama administration and his policies are not taking an intimidating enough stance? they are not scared of us. >> this is a mirror image of your point. your point was president obama should say that the attack on israel is an attack against the united states.

this young man says an hour ago, it was reported one of the generals, an iranian, just said an israeli attack on iran would be an attack on america. -- an attack by america. american military bases would be vulnerable to our retaliation. >> it does not shock me. the iranians, if they were able to kill and destroy every israeli, that would not stop them from trying to kill and destroy every american. at this moment, they have the means to deliver a missile, to destroy israel. maybe two or three nuclear bombs would destroy the place. they did not have the response -- a capability to destroy the united states. once they do, i do not think

they wouldn't use it. -- once they do, i don't think there is any uncertainty that they will use it. >> the iranians would attack us through the sarah gets. 21 countries in a ride or revolt. we will see something like that. we will see course of action here. there is a network in south america, where there is a colony of over 30,000 people. we have offered as working, 450 in venezuela. in ecuador, etc. if there is an attack, we better be prepared. it will be worldwide.

>> let's try that gentleman over there. right there. >> when you said president obama should say, an attack on israel would result, an attack on america and america would respond, is that already not too late? said the attack the on iran before they develop the capability to attack? >> this is not a "gotcha" situation. the president has already said we will not permit iran to get the nuclear bomb. he said that. hold it. what i am saying is that was clear -- that is what he has said. the united states will decide

for itself when it is appropriate to stop them. israel has a different point of view. -- in terms of timing. the united states has a different point of view. what i have said is totally different than that. and just as important. >> truly, the last question. this woman. i will have to get both of you. [laughter] two more. these two women. that one and that one. >> one thing is true. the people who come to this conference are motivated. nobody is some of that was -- nobody is asleep. -- created by

our esteemed guests. >> what is congress doing? i am petrified president obama will be reelected. what can congress do to rein in some of the things he has done? >> like what? >> groveling in cairo is number one. groveling. not in the way spain said he was apologetic. i am sorry, spain. he was groveling. the truth is the mlims understand, but they do not understand weakness. they take advantage of it. sending a birthday card is the most ridiculous thing in the world. that is not it. i want to know what congress could possibly do to help. >> appropriations rise out of the house. we have to hold the house, which i will expect to happen. we have over 40 bills, many of

them limiting aid to egypt, to other arab countries, until they do certain things or respond in a certain way. the senate is sitting on these right now. we can, even in next year, the next house can limit appropriations. but that is limited. the senate still has approval on treaties and the president has executive power. but, if you look at past history, the polls, the demographics, the president should lose 54 to 46, and the republic will be saved. thank you very much.

>> last question. and we will say goodbye to our guests. the question? >> yes, just a question. in a couple of days, wednesday. the platform will be taken at the united nations general assembly. my question escapes what actions can we be taking similar to canada shedding their embassy, what can the united states do with regard to the international court of justice? there is talk right now about recognizing the fact that he is on a genocidal task. his calls are genocidal. that is against a member nation of the united nations. how can we as america do something to ensure iran is thrown out of the united nations? he cannot be given platforms like this. he is now the secretary for the mam for the next three years.

>> how can the united states get iran thrown out? do you realize iran just held a meeting with 40 countries? i thought it was 40. even more important, 120. you are suggesting the president should organize an assembly to throw iran out? listen, you'll forgive me, but it is ridiculous. we pay dues but we do not decide how countries will vote. thank god none of the votes in the assembly are mandatory in terms of being carried out. that has to be done through the security council, where we have a veto. to suggest that we go down the

path of trying to throw iran out of the assembly, you are spinning your wheels. thank you. >> congressman? >> to even debate the efficacy of the u.n. is a waste of time. they are a colossal failure. [applause] the league of nations, we have had some successes in humanitarian aid and some peacekeeping. beyond that, this is an enormous propaganda machine against us and against western civilization. we ought to recognize it as such. >> with that final word, we want to thank the former mayor ed koch. and bob turner. thank you.

>> both presidential candidates are making comments mark. mitt romney will speak to the clinton global initiative in new york city. you can see that honor companion network c-span 2. at 10:00 p.m. eastern, president obama addresses the u.n. general assembly in new york. that is live here on c-span . ul later in the day, governor romney will be in ohio with paul ryan. also on c-span. >> the first debate between presidential candidate mitt romney and president barack obama is next wednesday october

3. jim lehrer moderates from the university of denver. watch and engage with c-span, including airline debate. view starting at 7:00 p.m. eastern. followed by the policy debate at 9:00 p.m. follow our live coverage on c- span, c-span reo, an online at c-span.org. >> we underestimate how much we forget our our own ideas and how much we read. it is just terrible. even those of us with good memories. particularly if an idea is a fragmentary thing, saying that it is interesting and it kind of disappears. what i find a lot of people do is to not choose to write everything down, but to keep everything together. don't or burr -- don't over organize your notes. you want to allow a collision between your ideas. but the important thing is to go

back and read all those notes. look at the notes from six years ago and all the ideas here she had good. that is what the notes were like for the enlightenment. they took notes from all of the things they read and were inspired by. they would go back and read again this book that was like a remixed, kind of sample, kind of cooking of all of these other ideas. -- kind of clicking of all of these other ideas. it was formed by this constant rereading of other people's ideas. >> stephen johnson will be our guest next month on "in depth." we will look at the cyberworld, popular culture and computer networking in politics to live

sunday october 7 on c-span 2's "the td." >> economic advisers for the obama and romney campaign spoke today at the international press club about their economic proposals. the discussion was moderated by david wessel. we will hear from the vice- president of the national association of business economics. [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012] >> good afternoon could welcome to the economic debate 2012. i am chief economist for the associated general contractors of america and i am president- elect of the national association for business economics. this educational forum is brought to you by nabe. founded in 1969, it is a non-

professional organization for economics. our mission is to provide leadership -->> our mission is to provide leadership in the use and understanding of economics. this is the fourth in a series of economics here in 2007. this is the education initiative. our annual meeting is in new york next month. our semi annual policy survey. we released the results of the latest and posted a full copy on our website. we have hard copies available for those of you at the national press club. the survey provides a summary. this is on current fiscal, monetary, regulatory policy in the european debt situation. joining us are partners with fidelity investments represented here with lisa mattingly will make closing

remarks. this is our effort to provide a policy forum for these presidential campaign advisers. we hope today's event will broaden the understanding of the proposals of prospectus with the debt and focus of a format like this one can provide. you can follow and participate live by tractor at #nabedebate. he is an adviser to the republican presidential nominee mitt romney and dr. jeffrey liebam. their biographies are available at our website. it is our privilege to turn this are to our co-moderators.

judy woodruff has a way to speak with audience in a clear but never simplistic fashion. david is into millions of listeners through "morning edition" his new book on the deficit challenges. it is all yours. >> you should have made the introductions longer. you are on a roll. >> thank you very much. we are both delighted to be here. we know there are so many issues people are interested in. none more important than the economy. that is why we're really thrilled to be here to take part in this debate. the election is only 42 days away. with every day, more questions pop up. the more the public wants answers. the candidates debate start

next week. i think our opportunity today to talk with these two advisers cannot be more timely. i am just going to start by asking questions that david will come after. we're going to go back and forth. we will see where it goes. we will be looking to the audience for you to ask a question. why did your candidate believe that this economy is not creating more jobs? what would he do to change that and make things better? >> we came through the deepest recession since the great depression.

>> democrat tim kaine and republican george allen are running for the senate this year. they participated in a debate, moderated by nbc news. >> and good afternoon. welcome to the senatorial debate between democrat tim

kaine and republican george allen, hosted by the fairfax county chamber of commerce. i am a moderator of today's event. i want to cover the rules of today's event. it will last one hour and will begin with opening statements, and then the panelists and i will pose questions. those questions are determined by the panelists, by us. they have not been reviewed by the fairfax chamber. each candidate will have one minute, 30 seconds to respond, and there will be an additional one-minute rebuttal. i reserve the right to be able to follow up with some questions as i see fit as the moderator. we will end with a two-minute closing statement from each candidate. there is a clock in front of each candidate noting the time. we have the northern virginia bureau chief with us, and there

is a man who joined "the washington post" after being with another organization. and a man that attended virginia commonwealth university is with us. let's begin by hearing the candidates and their opening statements. the order was determined by a coin toss earlier today, so first, let's welcome former governor and the former chairman of the democratic national committee, tim kaine. [applause]

and next, we welcomed former governor and former senator george allen. [no audio] -- [applause] we will start, as i mentioned, because of the coin toss with governor kaine. your opening statement. >> thank you, and it is great to be back with the chamber of commerce. it reminds me of a similar event years ago. at that event, we talked about transportation, and at that time, there was no rail or hot lanes being built, and i am pleased to have worked on that with you. we talked mostly at the chamber about economic development, and

in my time as governor, we landed marquee companies, including volkswagen and northrop grumman, who announced they were coming to the neighborhood. we also got accolades every year of my four years as governor. i am proud of those accomplishments. i am proud we did it together, local, federal, state. but i am also proud we did it in the midst of a global fiscal collapse. today, we are here because we have got a congress to end gridlock. we have to grow an economy, and to do it, we level the playing field for small business. we invest in infrastructure programs, like rail to dulles, and we innovate and come up with new alternative energy industries of tomorrow.

we have got to fix the budget, and to do that, we need a balanced approach in both the short term and long term, and i hope we will talk a good deal about that, but the most important thing we need to do is put results over rhetoric and put substance over sound bites. our ideas are not the problem. it is our willingness to work together, and if i have the honor to serve as governor, i will do that as i have in the past. thank you. >> thank you. governor allen? >> whether it was to convince jobs to come to fairfax or investing in our schools and colleges and working with leaders of both parties to secure funding for projects like dulles rail, and i am very grateful for that spirit of partnership. i also want to thank my friend tim kaine.

we both love virginia and have worked hard to make it better. at a time when so many feel that our country is on the wrong track and politics are so petty, i hope we can have a conversation here that can inspire people to the opportunities that will build a better future. susan and i have talked to many americans. they still believe in the american dream and want to restore the promise. the one to make sure they and their children have access to quality and affordable education so that young people can pursue their dreams. they want to unleash the enormous potential of the plethora of our energy sources. they want to reinvigorate the entrepreneurial policies with reasonable regulations so the job creators have the confidence and certainty to hire again. they want to work together for real solutions. what they do not want to know is politicians and injuring

hundreds of thousands of jobs in northern virginia, technology and defense jobs, and using them as pawns to a demand higher taxes or a budget deal. now, these are tough times, but out of adversity, we can create a more confident, caring, and prosperous america, and that is a positive agenda i will forward to discussing today, and the ida is what is best for the virginia businesses. >> governors, thanks to both of you. this is a high-profile senate race for the nation, certainly very important for the commonwealth, and it is also occurring in the shadow of the presidential debate, so i want to ask you about 47% we heard about this week. governor romney in summer marks

at a fundraiser taped earlier this year talked about how there is some 47% of the people that do not pay federal income tax. he said that he believes they are -- that they feel they are victims, that the government needs to take care of them, and that they are entitled to housing, you name it. part of that 47 percent said. what would you do about that? do you think that should change? and what do you think, generally, about too many virginians, too many americans being too dependent on government? >> you can say something off of the gulf that you regret. i disagree with what mitt romney's said. it is condescending and divisive. the last thing we need to do at this moment is divide people,

one against each other. this nation is divided and of an alleged apart enough. people need to be brought together. as we talk about these long-term issues, the country's fiscal policy, we have to have shared sacrifice. everyone has to help if we are going to fix these issues. we have got an issue on the table that is immediate, that is going to call upon congress and the president, which is how to deal with these year-and budget cuts. i am a simple and specific idea about how we can come together. we will let the -- i have a simple and specific idea about how to come together. we will that the bush tax cuts expire. we will negotiate with medicare to get better drug prices. we have to find by year end about $235 billion in savings over 10 years.

we can do that in the short term. >> do you believe that everybody in virginia should pay something in federal income tax? >> everyone pays taxes. >> the federal income tax. >> i would be open to the proposal to have some minimum tax level for everyone, but many pay higher taxes than governor romney does. >> the nominee of your party for the presidency, he believes that that 47% believe that they are victims. do you share that vision of america, and what would you do as senator about the 47%? >> the best idea of what to see someone will do in the future is what they have done in the past. if somebody has a job, taking

care of themselves and providing for their family, we have cut taxes and made virginia much more business friendly, adding more than 300,000 net new jobs in the private sector. one of the other successes we had while i was governor was welfare reform. we wanted to lift people out of poverty and towards independence, to have the dignity of a job. i remember here in fairfax county having a press conference, where inova was hiring. we had a press conference, and reporters somewhat insulted a woman and said something to the fact of, what kind of job is this making pizzas? the owner of the franchise said, "how do you think i got where i am? i started making pizzas."

another said, "i think is good for my daughter to see her mother working." that is what we should be aspiring to, making sure that everyone has the opportunity to compete and succeed. we need to have the policies that do not increase taxes on people but decrees them, and tim has got a different point of view, and one is where he was trying to raise taxes on people making as little as -- >> respectfully, i want to get back to my question. it was very specific. he said 47% of americans are too dependent on government and that they see each other as victims. do you think that? >> as i stated in the beginning, david, the best social program

is a job. how do you provide more job opportunities? >> do they see themselves as victims? >> no. i will bring positively at the people. >> you would disagree with governor romney on this point? >> would you disagree with governor romney on this point? >> i have my own point of view. our responsibility as leaders, as public servants, is to make sure that this is a place where everyone has equal opportunity to achieve their american dream. i will expand on this later in our debate, i suppose, but i think you look at the records. who has created more opportunities? i mentioned welfare reform. they were down and out, and they temporarily needed help. even folks who are disabled want to work. that is one of the great attributes and characteristics.

they do not look at themselves as victims. this gives them the opportunity to reach their aspirations and be that role model. >> we will take one minute for rebuttal. >> i do not think the question whether or not mitt romney's statements, you agree with them or not. i think it was very straightforward. they were divisive comments, and we have seen too much divisive politics. there has been an effort to turn our back on the divisive politics of the past. my wife, her dad, as a republican, he integrated public schools. he said it was past time for virginia to have an aristocracy of marriage. that is what he said in a speech. -- yeah has rejected the kind of division that was contained in that speech. it might have been off the cuff. it might have been a gaffe.

some things that -- and do not agree in, and i am glad they do not. let's come together, and let's come together in a specific way on the most important issue of the day, resolving the short- term fiscal challenge. >> a perfect segue. to my colleague now. >> defense contractors started to refer to something as the "s" word. sequester. losing some to wonder and thousand defense jobs. there are the defense cuts mandated by the sequestered that starts to take effect on january 2. avoiding those cuts is going to require compromise in a different type of deficit reduction plan. given all of those virginia jobs at stake, how can you say no to any type of tax and revenue increase, even if it is paired with a greater degree of spending cuts?

>> getting our fiscal house in order in washington. i saw this as being another example of washington leaders not making decisions, putting off decisions to yet another commission, which, if it failed, as it did, it would be the responsibility of the federal government, which is national defense, as well as it being what is known to be over 200,000 technology and defense jobs in virginia. what we need to do is repeal or replace obamacare. but will sit trillions in spending, and that is harmful for business. i think we need to cut out and look at where there is redundancy in government. the government accountability office has put that forward. federal government employees, we have to reward them for cost-saving ideas.

in the long term, a balanced budget amendment. tim said in the last debate that this is the right thing to do. now, he has, up with a plan. i will ask you, with your plan, have you done an analysis of the impact of jobs with your plan, and if so, who did the analysis, and what did it show? >> the plan is a compromise, and it is specific, unlike anything i have heard in the last 60 seconds. we have to deal with the sequestered over the next 10 years. let's do three things. george allen voted for tax cuts, and he voted for them to be temporary. the reason was if he made them a permit, you would bust the deficit. it is time to let those tax cuts expire for those making more than $500,000. if they go back to where they were, we were in belt largest

expansion in the history of the united states. fix medicare. allow negotiations for prescription drugs. that will save $240 billion over 10 years, and finally, takeaway subsidies from the big oil companies. they are very profitable, but they do not need our help. what you end up with then is not a $1 trillion problem. you end up with a problem in the $200 billion range. raising the ceiling, a default for the nation. he spoke out against the fairfax chamber and other chambers, and now he is saying, "wait a minute. we cannot make cuts." when he is running as the guy who wants to make cuts.

he has more sides then a rubik cube. >> what your so-called plan would do to jobs. i think you should be taking into account what the impact is on jobs, and our economy, which is a major, major concern. you talked about bob mcdonnell and eric cantor. what they did was pass a measure that would avert these devastating cuts to our national defense and jobs in virginia. what has this than that done? absolutely nothing. they have not passed a budget in 3.5 years. they were part of a committee that you went around campaigning for. you have to start out with what the house passed, and then look at reforming the tax loopholes. the proposal i have will create more than 500,000 jobs per year, and we have to unleash our american energy resources,

and that will create more than 1 million jobs in the country and give money to the federal government without raising taxes. those are positive solutions to improve our lives and our revenue, make our country more secure, and improve people's quality of lives. >> let's move on. >> governor kaine, i am wondering if you could say specifically if you have entertained the idea of getting rid of the deductions for mortgage interest and charitable donations, and if not, what types of deductions would you be willing to eliminate? >> i am glad you asked that. it is the second step in the process. we have to solve the sequester issue before the year end. i have a plan on the table, but that does not end the challenge. we then have the challenge on the revenue side and on the spending side.

i know how to do it on the spending side. as governor, i cut $5 million out of the budget. on the revenue side, i do agree with the proposition, and this is something that george and i have debated about before, and we are essentially in agreement, that the right thing to do about revenue, after we let the tax cuts expire, as i explained, we fill in deductions and exclusions and reduce tax rates. you can do it and make it simpler some businesses and families do not have to have a tax account to figure it out. i think the charitable and home owner deduction policies are very important. it is not about each individual deduction but instead looking at a proposal where there would be an aggregate total, an aggregate amount of deductions that you can play. the battle of each individual

deduction could take congress decades. this is not a unique idea. others have advanced it. having a structure of aggregate total deductions is more likely to work going forward. >> the two separate tax processes we have. i am indicating a freedom to choose a flat tax. i think it would be unfair to take away the mortgage interest deduction and other deductions that people have used to make investment decisions. to all of a sudden change them would be unfair. however, if people want to have a simpler tax code your deductions or no deductions, and they can fill it out on one piece of paper and multiplying it by the rate that it is, let the taxpayers decide. it is really what hong kong has

done, and what they have found is with people choosing the flat tax, many went to be simpler tax. right now, our federal and government imposes a worst in the world 35% on jobs-creating businesses in our country. the average is 25%. i am advocating doing it at 20% because i think america should be better than average. this will lead to 500,000 jobs per year. tim does not have an analysis of his jobs plan. his is one of always trying to increase taxes. lower taxes create more jobs, makes our country more competitive, and it is amazing to me that tim wood raise taxes on people on used cars and raising taxes on people making as little as $17,000 per year will put in jeopardy defense and technology jobs, and in my view, the men and women of our armed forces should never be

used as a bargaining chip. >> as you take a moment to respond, when you talk about eliminating deductions, you would do that for everyone or just high-income earners? >> taking veterans hostage on economic issues, that is exactly the kind of name-calling that we have got too much of in washington. we can debate policies. but that is the kind of name- calling that we have seen too much of in washington, and what is wrong is not going to be fixed with more of that. he was a u.s. senator. he was a senator for six years. during his time in the senate, his fiscal policies turned massive surpluses into massive deficits. it went up every second george allen was a u.s. senator. he voted to raise the debt

ceiling four times and to raise his salary after york times. now, he is trying to look like a conservative, but the actions do not match his words. with respect to the particular questions on deductions, i think the right question will be some aggregate examination of deductions rather than try to fight the entrenched issues, and you can have the amount or percentage of deductions vary by income, with the way the tax code is set up already. >> we are out of time. >> may i have some time to rebut? >> not according to your rules. you'd decided. >> governor allen, virginia voters are divided on whether they want they want this to stay or go, partly because it is so complex.

do you want to completely get rid of the law as it stands and start over on help desk care reform from scratch, or would you favor some other method? >> i will answer the first part and then rebut some of the comments he made. with the debt, it is the spending in washington that has gone up to $54,000 per cent and in spending. tim criticizes the tax cuts we pass. they helped to create 7 million jobs in our country and averted a recession after the devastating attacks on our country on 9/11, so the idea of who is fiscally responsible and who is going to create jobs, i think we will demonstrably improved job opportunities. now, on the tax law. this is also an impediment. i have heard from small business owners and community

hospitals that this is harmful. small businesses do not want to get over 50 employees, and somewhat to make some of their employees part-time, and that will make others have to get jobs part-time. i do think it ought to be repealed and replaced. some provisions are good in it. i think covering children of to age 26 on a parental policy is good, especially since one- third of the kids graduating from college in this weak economy are having to move back home. i think we have to have affordable and portable health savings accounts, where people can take them from job to job. with the northern virginia technology council, some folks have had three jobs before age 30. that is a good idea. and they ought to be able to band together across state lines and have more competition, more

toys, and affordable health care, and i think we ought to allow the states greater flexibility in managing medicaid, and i'd think they will do the more efficiently. >> i will start where george started with the record. they were dealing with time bombs that are still going of today. it was unprecedented in american history. nobody has done that, and nobody has certainly cut taxes while you are trying to wage a war. expanding medicare without paying for it, unprecedented. and to persist in the notion that they should be made permanent when the cbo says they had to be temporary or bust the deficit, it would demonstrate that a second term of george allen would be very similar to the first. the affordable care act. there have been 43 votes to repeal the affordable care act already, and i think there was a lawsuit that got some attention.

the last thing we need to do is spend our time looking in the rearview mirror. we do not need to go back. the uninsured went up by millions, and premiums went up by over 60% when he is there. i am glad to hear george acknowledge some positives about the bill. we need to do more positives, largely around fixing costs. this medicare idea that we put on the table is a way to find cost savings to bring down costs in a way that will help the budget, help seniors, and will not jeopardize the quality of the program. >> there are about 6 million americans who would want to look in the rearview mirror. that is the no. 2, in effect, a tax increase, many in the middle class, they were failing to get health care pursuant to the individual mandate.

that is about 2 million more that was initially said. it take a moment to respond to that. >> this same group of people will have the ability to purchase insurance on health exchanges and have the ability to get free preventive care under medicare or prescription drug discounts under medicare. that same group of people can no longer be discriminated against because they are women and have a pre-existing condition. having a pre-existing condition and denying them coverage. there might be a cause, but there was already in cost. people going to emergency rooms and seeking care and shifting the cost to others. responsibility is not a bad principle. >> governor, do you want a moment to respond to that? i met a philosophical question.

according to the rules, you get one minute. i promise you, i am not making this up. we are taking more time away from you as we debate it. >> bottom line, are you committed to universal coverage, and how do you do this without universal coverage? >> well, here is the thing. there are so many things wrong with this current health-care tax law. in addition to adding $1 trillion in spending, we are taking $700 million out of medicare. that is why seniors are so concerned that they will have access to doctors. there are some that said they will not take any more medicare patients. having these decisions made by medicare doctors and patients, not bureaucracies. i would make it a reversible tax credit, where people get

coverage for major medical procedures, and by having its portable, it means that if somebody moves from job to job, they do not have to worry about a pre-existing condition that they or somebody in their family may have , so the me, that is a positive approach. it puts patients and hospitals and doctors in charge rather than washington. that would be a paradigm shift. the solution is not moving the $700 million from medicare, which is something we have to make solvent. it is in precarious shape. we will be right back, after this. we continue with our discussions. >> governor kaine, whether you think same-sex couples should be issued marriage licenses the same way, marriage equality under the law. in order for them to be equal,

would not all couples have to be allowed to get a marriage license. >> you know, as i get older, i have come to the conclusion that been for equality is never a bad thing. we do not make a mistake when we follow the basic constitutional prescription, that everyone should be entitled to equal protection under the law. my wife is here, and i will say a bad relationship we have had is one that i wish everyone would have, a long-term relationship, where you celebrate the joys, and you mourn the losses, where you build up memories to sustain you into old age, i think everyone should be able to have that regardless of sexual orientation. i would like everyone to be able to have that and not have to hide it. i think it should be recognized

and even celebrated, and i have taken the position since i have started the campaign that relationships should be treated equally, equally under the law, same responsibilities. i would allow churches as they do today to continue to recognize which relationships and they recognize in the church. whether they title a same-sex relationship, civil union or a marriage, but the test to me is whether the legal rights or responsibilities that someone else has, they should be able to have the same legal responsibilities and rights that i have. >> i just want to pin you down. do you believe in gay marriage, recognizing the institution of marriage being impossible and, indeed, should even be legal between a man and a man and a woman and a woman? >> it has traditionally been

state policy. i would like the state legislatures to make a decision as to whether they would accord this protection -- >> you are not prepared to say -- and when -- >> let me finish. to me, it is our people treated the same and given the same rights and responsibilities. i think legal equality should be the policy. >> governor, 1.5 minutes. >> i believe marriage should be between one man and one moment, and that is the definition i have supported. i do not believe in discriminating against people because of their sexual preference. this is the way i have operated by senate office, as well. and look at people's capabilities, their skills, their willingness and being effected.

to me, one of the most important things people can do is to make sure people have job opportunities, and we were talking about the health care measure. that health-care measure is a real impediment to jobs. whether you are a small business or a large business, this law is an impediment to you growing your business. i heard from a small-business owner who said her husband works for a company with 300 employees, and they were going to drop insurance. this is very disconcerting. when one talks about what is the best social policy for our country, jobs. jobs is the most important aspect, and i think family is the most important institution in our society, and i think we should be judging people by their character and competence, not by the color of their skin or by their sexual preferences. >> i want to go back to an

issue, which seems to be an issue for republicans, and generally. why do you think you pull much better among men -- among men than women? 14 points. is this a republican party problem? take 30 seconds. >> i think we are going to do very well with men and women, and after this debate, people will listen to this, and there are mothers that i have talked to, whether they are married or unmarried, they care about jobs and the economy. if somebody is unmarried and working, or if they are married, they could be working, and they are also caring about the future of their families. a large percentage of graduates are unemployed or underemployed. i think we will be united behind these constructive ideas and send a message to the world

that america is open for business with the right tax and regulatory and energy policies. >> governor kaine, your one- minute rebuttal. >> these are economic issues. the status of a relationship, if someone cannot have their relationship recognized, the inability to get insurance, that is an economic issue, and with respect to women, if you force women to have an ultrasound procedure against their will and paid for it, that is an economic issue. if you deny people the ability to make constitutional choices, even whether or not to purchase contraception, that is an economic issue. when george allen was in office, he supported an amendment to enable employers to take away contraceptive coverage for their employees.

bute are women's issues, they are bigger than that. they are family issues and economic issues, and it is demeaning to the thing that they are little social issues. women are more than half of this economy, and we have to make the right decision. >> there was a verbal insult directed at a campaign worker, which was an insult that many viewed as an ethnic slur. it still lingers in the minds of some voters. what do you say to those who are still troubled by that comment, how they should give you a second chance, and how did that comment change you as a candidate and a person? >> i have stated on many occasions that that was a mistake. i apologize for it. he had a hard job to do

following me around the commonwealth of virginia. losing is a humbling experience. i did not like losing. sometimes you learn much more from losing than you do from winning. one thing that my father has always taught me, and he was in sports, when you get knocked down, you get back up. whether someone is a woman or a man, they are going to care about jobs and the economy more than anything else, so we are working as hard as we can to make sure this campaign is one that motivates people to constructive, positive ideas, it is not just rhetoric. it is a record i had as governor and as senator. we were able to work down party lines. we were able to get our economy moving, and with that, the tax cuts, reducing the size of government, over 300,000 net new jobs.

tim tried to raise taxes. the members of the general assembly had to work on this. tuition skyrocketed, and over 100,000 jobs were lost in virginia during his four years. those were the approaches. this provides more americans with greater opportunities to control their own destinies. >> i think the biggest question that virginians are wrestling with as they look at this election is a look at a congress that is broken, and it is broken because people will not work together. we do not have a shortage of ideas. what we seem to have a shortage of is finding common ground and working together. a similar question was raised again to george. i pointed out that, look, we all make mistakes.

in public life, we make them in public view. but there was a notion that this young man had to be welcomed into the real virginia. that was the challenging one. we know that a lot of politics in this state over time has been separating people into real virginians or other virginians, and we have seen that this week at the national level, but that sentiment is still out there. we are only going to solve the big problems, balancing the budget, dealing with a new energy future if we work together, and, george, you famously said as you were governor that you enjoyed knocking things down people's throats. and senator clinton, pushing the campaign when you were chairman of the senate republican campaign committee. some of it may be just sports or competitive rhetoric, but that is not what it is going to

take to fix washington. we need more bridge building. we need people who can find common ground. that is the one thing we are missing in congress right now. we have to put people in place who have a demonstrated track record and have the ability to do it. >> jim, you pick out certain quotes from me, and let me pick out some of the ones that people have seen about our records. "the washington post," which rarely says anything good about republicans, said this about me. >> governor allen has been markedly successful in generating business investment in the virginia." the virginia education association said our budget was the best they had seen in a number of years. democratic senators, and they support you, tim, they have

stated publicly how we have worked together, whether it is health screenings for newborn children or expanding access to broadband, and then when tim was taking office, here is what the newspaper said. quote, "is tim kaine is looking for a role model, the george allen term as governor was one of the most consequential of the 20th-century," and this was not including some of the things we did, like freezing tuition. the u.s. chamber of commerce endorsed me. >> there have been some reports in recent days suggesting that the u.s. consulate in benghazi may not have had heightened security. do you think this could have been handled better either before or after the attack could

>> i do not know the details, but i am sure the answer to that question is yes. when something goes wrong, there is always something you could have done better. april 2007, there was a shooting at virginia tech, the most significant crime in the history of the state, and i had just landed in japan on a trade mission, and i got on a plane and flew back, and i spent time dealing with the breeding members of that community, and i said we would put in place a panel of people that have no connection to virginia tech, and we will have them turn it upside down so we can minimize the chance of anything like that happening again. we can minimize that chance. we found a lot of things that could have been done better.

it required us to make significant changes to the mental health laws and to people who were adjudicated for being mentally ill and getting firearms. there were things that have gone wrong, and we fixed them. i am sure there were things that went wrong that led to the death of this wonderful ambassador and others, including a man who was just buried yesterday in winchester, virginia. i am sure there are things that went wrong. what did the administration needs to do is dig into it as deeply as we can, and then it see if we can resolve them so the diplomatic people can keep doing their jobs. >> is this a broader issue in regard to the arab spring? >> in some regards, yes. let me just take a moment and commend to him, as i am done before, on his leadership after the tragedy on april 16 at virginia tech.

that is a time where tim and all americans were united, and we improved the safety of our colleges, so, tim, i commend you once again for that. now, in terms of national security, there are a lot of challenges facing us. there was an uprising in iran several years ago, when people wanted a more free and just society, when i was just hoping they would be on the side of changing that oppressive regime, but they stayed silent. there was when ronald reagan called the soviet union the evil empire. if iran gets nuclear weapons, that needs to be prevented. you have worries about, particularly in syria, chemical weapons stockpiles. you have the attacks on our

consulates in libya and egypt and elsewhere a rumble world. this is why it is a dangerous and so wrong to be playing these political games with our armed services. we need to be strong. we need to have a strong economy and to have a strong national defense, but the last thing that we need is having these devastating cuts to our military readiness. we have to stop these devastating cuts, come together, said the right priorities, and make sure that the men and women that are protecting our safety and freedom and our elections here have the best armament and equipment and making sure we keep those good paying jobs in technology and defense here in virginia and not use them as a pawn to raise taxes on jobs- creating businesses. >> governor kaine, one minute. >> let me just go to the last point. nobody is talking about using the military or veterans as pawns. i have never heard that

statement by anyone accept george, kind of throwing back at me, and that is the kind of charge that you have to be careful about. i take second to no one in appreciating the service of our folks in active service and in the military. military guardspeople, 15,000 of them deployed in the war on terror. i went to iraq and afghanistan, and i celebrate the fact that all units are home. we have to figure out a way to get to a result point. again, i have laid out a pretty concrete plan for how we can in the short-term avoid sequester cuts so that we do not harm defense and so we protect the northern virginia economy. this is not about taking anybody prisoner. it is about solving a problem. we have to have some problem solvers. >> i want to give you each one

minute to respond to this. the war in afghanistan, one decade plus. our troops are being targeted, by the same troops that we are trying to stand up so we can stand down. governor ella, can we accomplish the mission in withdraw troops if we do not have an afghan army sufficiently stood up? -- governor allen? >> i do not think it is a great idea to have our opponents know when we are leaving. that just does not make sense. their families are serving as well. we are giving them the opportunity to stand up and take control of their destiny. there will be ways as the troops come home, and they will come home with their heads held high. with the drones and other

things, i think there are ways we can monitor the area and precisely strike if there is any terrorist activity, not just their but in the border area with pakistan. what is going on right now is just a reminder that the afghan people need to take control of their own destiny. we have lost a lot of our american treasure, the folks who have served there. if the afghan people do not stand up for themselves, we cannot do it for them. >> i would just start agreement that last part. the u.s. cannot be the guarantor. the mission of the u.s. presence in afghanistan i think was completed with the death of osama bin laden and the elimination of the top leadership of al qaeda. that is why we went into afghanistan. we did not go into afghanistan to remake civil society. we went in to get osama bin laden and al qaeda.

having completed that mission, we are now withdrawing troops. the challenges we have going forward is the nature between afghanistan and pakistan, a nuclear nation with a nuclear arsenal, and the prospect of instability in that region, potentially putting that nuclear arsenal at risk, and i think that has to be part of what we do as part of the drawdown. >> we have reached the park for your closing statements. >> thanks to the fairfax chamber, and i also want to thank george. we have been competitors for 17 months, both working hard, our families working hard, our team is working hard. and while i will not say the i will take george allen as a warm water on policy, i do remember that outside my

district of richmond, i viewed him as a role model, with the vigor with which he campaigned, and a lot of people in our line of work make it look like root canal surgery, and you'll enjoy it, and so do i.. we need a washington that is clearly about results. in the aftermath of the debacle, we got eight bond downgrade, and it was really telling to have the s&p american credit. they did not do the downgrade because they did not like the mechanics of the deal. they downgrade us because they thought too many people in the leadership class were using a routine vote as leverage over the economy. too many people were playing chicken with each other on capitol hill, rather than looking at the people who were depending on them and trying to do the right thing. we have to fix washington so it is about results.

we have to grow the economy. we talked a bit about some strategies. i have a plan that i invite you to check out. leveling the playing field. we have got to find common ground and fix the budget. there is too much division in congress, and that is why it s&p and moody's have said we have got to put some people and they're willing to compromise. the challenges on the table before us right now is this issue of sequestered. i have laid out a pretty simple, straightforward plan. let the bush tax cuts expire over $500,000. take away on necessary subsidies. then you get a cut, accounting for billions in savings. it is time for specifics. it is time for action. it is time for working together. >> thank you for this opportunity to have debate today. tim, you keep talking about the

plan, and we still do not know. if you want to raise taxes on exxonmobil or others, we want to go into the impact. which approach is going to be best for jobs here in our country. i envision a better future. david asked me about who are you targeting in your campaign? there are various percentages. i think about 99% of the folks should be on our side. anybody who uses electricity, anybody who drives a car, anybody who pays taxes, anybody who works for a living or once a job should be on our side. i figured that is about 99% of the people that should be on our side. with what tim is talking about, it would affect the price of electric v. we would be paid $30 or more

when we fill up, and if you like our gas prices, but if you want it more affordable, and i want to allow us in virginia to produce oil and natural gas off our coast and use those royalties for roads and transportation. that would be the first bill that i introduced as your senator. this creates more job opportunities, and whether it is young people or middle-aged folks. many in our country are unemployed or underemployed. i respectfully ask for your support. let them know if they use electricity, drive a car, pay taxes, what a job, or care about the future for their family, they should come to the george allen's side. we want to make sure that america is once again the land of opportunity for all to reach their dreams. >> governor, thank you. thanks to both of you.

i want to thank that chamber. thank you as well to our terrific panel. do not forget, stay with nbc news for continuing coverage of election 2012, and do not forget to vote on november 6. thank you. [applause] [captioning performed by national captioning institute] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2012]

>> more at senate debates coming up on c-span. a debate between a republican senator and his democratic challenger from nevada. that is thursday live on c-span and also on line at c-span.org. and friday from wisconsin, republican debates his opponent. that is 9:00 p.m. eastern. he served as the governor until 2001, and she represented the second district in congress since 1999. former new york city mayor du

supports president obama, and a republican. it is about 40 minutes. the first debate between the presidential candidates is next wednesday, october 3rd. watchband and engage -- watch and engage with c-span. hallmark live coverage on c- span -- follow our live coverage on c-span.

claire mccaskill debated todd akin last week in missouri. association debates. let me introduce to you today our candidates, we have to my left, republican congressman todd akin. again to the missouri press association debates. let me introduce to you today our candidates, we have to my left, republican congressman todd akin. in the middle, democratic senator claire mccaskill. at the end, libertarian candidate jonathan dine. let me also introduce to you today our panel of journalist who will be joining me and asking questions today of the candidates. we have a student at the

university of missouri, we have bill miller of the washington missourian and jeff fox of the independent examiner. now let me briefly go over the rules of our debate today. the candidates drew numbers in advance to determine their speaking order. they will each have two minutes for an opening statement. candidates will have the 90 seconds to answer each question with a 45 second rebuttal at the option of the moderator. i will ask the first question and then our panelist will take turns asking questions. at the end of the debate, candidates will have two minutes for closing debates. for the members of the audience, we ask you to silence your phone and hold your applause. let's get started. we're read for our opening statements a congressman akin you're first. >> thank you all very much for

allowing us to have this chance to talk about things that matter about our families and about our country. i'm an engineer. i served as an officer in the army and work for ibm where i met my dear wife of 37 years. we have 6 six, 8 grandchildren. three of my sons went to the navel academy. as you can imagine, i have a great love for our country and for the american dream and the things that made us who we are. but my sense is, that things are not all right. if you take a look at gasoline prices, they are double what they were a few years ago. food prices are up. for the fact is, the jobs aren't

there and the numbers are much worse. we also have the $16 trillion of debt, a trillion plus deficit every year and all of these things are like little red lights on the dashboard telling you, something is not right. i believe that we have forgotten the secret of what made america such a special country. that is something which we see being destroyed right in front of our very eyes. we see a washington d.c., which got more and more red tape and bureaucracy and agency and executive orders and taxes and everything and they basically crushing freedom in america. your choice in this election is either more freedom as i have voted for more washington d.c. it's your choice, more freedom or more washington. or more washington.